Winter Project - Test track

Thinking through what I need to do to build the 57xx chassis I suddenly realised I don't have anything to test the chassis on. My test track would have been ideal if it had not been relegated to the garage (and is currently in pieces). Earlier in the year I was treated to a Bachrus rolling road and I've found this very useful in testing some of my RTR locos, though, I don't think it gives a true picture of how a loco will travel along the track. Or is this just because I like to see the locos move....?

Anyway a random length of redundant wooden shelving was retrieved from the dark recesses of the said garage (I knew it would come in useful one day), and thoughts were put towards what I might require on this strip of wood for testing locos.

1) A length of straight OO track for setting up the Bachrus rolling road and testing RTR locos prior to conversion.
2) A length of straight P4 track for setting up the Bachrus rolling road and testing locos after conversion (also for testing any chassis I manage to build during their construction).

3) A length of P4 track with a reverse curve to test a loco's abilities to travel through a minimum radius curve.

Item three above is the tricky one as what is the minimum radius curve for P4? Or possibly more importantly, what is the minimum curve for any locos I may be building? Templot shows alarm warnings at 39.4" yet the P4 Society seems to recommend not going below 48" for large locos. I guess it must come down to the length of a loco's wheelbase as to the minimum radius curve the loco can travel through. The shorter the wheelbase the tighter the curve. For the time being I cannot see myself building anything much larger than the wheel base of a WR Pannier tank. Beyond that perhaps, if my skills will allow, a 4-6-0 'N' Class and a Manor, both of which have driving wheel wheelbases similar to a Pannier tank. So I've plumped for the 39.4" radius curve as a minimum.

It's a bit rough and I will put some ends on to stop flying locos but for the moment it's located on my bench with a wall at one end and crocodile clips at the other. It may not be the most suitable test track but for now I think it should suffice.

A winter project - Getting to grips with CSB

Understanding the principles of Continuous Springy Beam and using the spreadsheets have been the first steps of this project. In principle it all makes good sense, but the maths and the theory do get very confusing for a lesser mortal like myself. However, the spreadsheets are the tools that turn all the theory into usable figures.

Unfortunately the first spreadsheet I downloaded caused me some confusion. It was one of Will Litchfield's and with hindsight my confusion was mainly due to me not knowing what I was trying to achieve. If only I'd realised what I would be doing now I would have tried to attend Will's lecture on CSB and John Brighton's on Chassis Building at Scaleforum ...... Anyway, at first sight Alan Turner's spreadsheet seemed to make more sense to me. The only drawback that I could see with Alan's offering is how can I calculate the centre of gravity of a model that I haven't yet built? But.... working on the principle that, if I put the centre of gravity roughly around the centre axle and weight all axles as near the same as the spreadsheet will allow, I can add weight to the finished model to move the centre of gravity over the centre axle.

After a little fiddling around I ended up with the calculations below. This was using Alan Turner's spreadsheet, for a 57xx chassis.

Once I'd started to use the above spreadsheet some of the theory started to sink in. I'd also been pointed in the direction of a different spreadsheet produced by Will which was not as daunting as the first. After some further discussions with group members, and a few more reads about CSB on CLAG's web pages, I was gaining a better understanding of the principles. Especially about the reasons for reducing the weight of the centre axle. Which, if my understanding is correct, is to help with: keeping the loco level; to enhance traction/grip; and reduce/avoid waddling ('porpoising') of the loco as it progresses along the track. I'm starting to feel I as if I'm getting to grips with CSB.....

The same figures entered into Will's spreadsheet seem to confirm that I might be on the right track.....


Considerations I have tried to take into account while using the spreadsheets to calculate fulcrum positions are: position of brake hangers; position of frame spacers to avoid the CSB mounts and wire; position of the frame spacers which will be used to mount the wire pick-ups; the position of motor and gear box. The diagram below hopefully shows my thoughts......


The only bit that I'm still trying to work out is how to support the motor/gearbox.... One idea (marked in green on the above diagram) is to solder some wire to the inside of both frames around the centre axle and bend them in and under to support the motor. Then either solder them to each side of the gear box, or drill a hole in the gear box for the wires to pass through supporting the gear box but not fixed permanently. The wire supports would be like a cradle for the motor to rest on and secure the gear box vertically. Would there be enough play in the articulated part of the gear box to allow suspension on the rear axle? The wire forming the cradle might not give a solid support but one that might have some flexibility allowing the gearbox some slight vertical movement. But....is there a better method?

I don't see that not knowing how to support the motor/gear box should stop me from installing the handrail knobs (that will be used as the CSB fulcrum points). So, I'm hoping to get started on construction during the next few evenings while I'm thinking/asking questions about the support for the motor/gear box.

A winter project - What to build?

Over the last couple of years I've been steadily collecting locos, RTR and kits, for my chosen period and project location. The most recent being two Dapol Beattie Well Tanks and a Perseverance Beattie Well Tank kit. For the moment though I do realise that the latter is way beyond my current capabilities as I've never constructed a loco kit.

While adding these kits to the shelf, I have been chewing the fat as to which one to build as my first attempt at a loco chassis. Ideally I thought it would be best to have started with an 0-6-0 tender loco. Starting with the tender chassis and then progress to the loco chassis. In my alternative universe I think I could twist history enough to justify running a Class 700 (Drummond's "Black Motor") - 30697 & 30700 were allocated to Exmouth Junction in 1961. I also have a BEC kit on the shelf waiting to be built. It was very tempting to make a start on this kit until it was very kindly pointed out it would take a lot of work to produce a decent looking loco from it. The tender frames are of different lengths and other castings are of dubious quality. It would also be my first white-metal loco kit and I've had little experience of constructing white-metal kits. So this kit will have to wait until I think I have enough experience.

I have also collected High Level's 03 and 57xx chassis kits. These look superb and the instructions seem second to none. However without any previous experience of building loco chassis I have found reading though the instructions daunting. Also, the thought of ruining one of these kits half way through the build is very off putting. I feel I need to cut my teeth on a kit that I could dismantle and start again, or at worst even throw away with the least worry over costs. I need to get my hands dirty with something simple.......

Thoughts turned to purchasing some Alan Gibson side frames for a DJH 1366 and/or a NuCast 16xx. I thought the 16xx kit could be a good first kit, apart from the construction of the white-metal body. Again I've had no experience of white metal kits and would like to ruin a few white-metal wagon kits before starting on the 16xx.......I could go on with many more excuses as to why most of the kits I've collected would not be good starting projects....... and you may ask why collect all these kits if I'm going to be such a chicken?

So, to cut to the chase, I've been encouraged by members of my area group to attempt to put together a Comet 57xx chassis with a Bachmann body. Compensation will be Continuous Springy Beam and the motor and gear box will be from High Level. Over the last few weeks I've been collecting all the items needed and recently purchased, off eBay, a suitably priced Bachmann body.

I do realise I am approaching this project with some naive enthusiasm but I've been receiving much encouragement and advice from members of my local P4 area group. It is invaluable having "hands on" on their locos; seeing their projects under construction; and the different techniques they have used. Having this access does much to demystify the written word in books or magazines. Hopefully I will get something running and not be too ashamed to show the result.........

Extracts from Trains Illustrated magazine (1) Jan - June 1960

Modelling time since the Leatherhead show has been a little limited but progress is slowly being made on a few more wagons. I've also been thinking hard about attempting to build my first loco chassis. I hope to post blog entries of progress of these tasks soon.

One other thing I have been doing is off loading a few duplicate copies MRJs and GWRJs on ebay, the proceeds of which have been put towards purchasing copies of Trains Illustrated. So far I've focused my purchases on 1960/1 looking for any information that might be relevant for my twist on history for Grogley Junction. Train workings and engine movements in and around Bodmin, Wadebridge, Newquay, St. Blazey and along the NCR.

For anyone that might be interested the first few entries that I've found are copied out below.....

February 1960 magazine
"A possibly unprecedented incursion into W.R territory by an S.R, engine was reported on December 18 (1959), when Cless “N” 2-6-0 No 31846 (72A) headed a 12:45 p.m. special Freight from Tavistock Junction, Plymouth to St. Austell; after servicing at St. Blazey, the “foreigner” returned light to Friary shed."

"Three W.R. pannier tanks Nos. 4666/94 and 9756 are now allocated to Exmouth Junction and Nos. 3633/79 are at Wadebridge."

April 1960 magazine
"On each Sunday in February and the first Sunday in March the Royal Albert Bridge at Saltash was closed for maintenance work and through passenger traffic between Devon and Cornwall by this route was interrupted. Passengers were conveyed across the Tamar by bus. On the first Sunday at least the 1130 a.m. up freight and the 12.35 and 5.40 p.m. milk from Penzance were booked to travel via Bodmin and Wadebridge on to the S.R. route via Launceston and Okehampton. The morning freight was hauled throughout by N.B. Loco Type “2” diesel-hydraulic unit No. D6304, which had to run round its train both at Bodmin General and at Wadebridge. Two “45xx” 2-6-2 tanks brought the first milk train into Wadebridge, where it was taken over by S.R. Class “N” 2-6-0 Nos. 31834/8 sent down light that morning from Exmouth Junction. Two more 2-6-0s were despatched from Exmouth for the second milk train, but this was able to take its normal route owing to early completion of the work at Saltash and the pair of 2-6-0s when home jobless."

At Eastleigh "….....also Beattie 2-4-0 well tank No. 30586, which was receiving a general overhaul although it is believed listed for withdrawal this year."

June 1960 magazine
"The first Birmingham R.C. &W. Co. three-car diesel multiple-unit for the Western Region, Nos W59302/17 and 59469, arrived at the Harwell Street diesel depot, Plymouth early in April and was put on to crew-training between Plymouth and Truro. As reported on page 233 of our April issue, the Birmingham order is for 15 three-car sets similar to the suburban railcars already delivered to the W.R. by Derby works, the principal difference between the two varieties being that the Birmingham version has lavatory accommodation in the centre trailer."

"From April 11 a daily duty over Par-Newquay line was added to the Laira diagrams for pairs of N.B. Loco Co. Type “2” diesel-hydraulic locomotives. The only jobs performed singly by the N.B. Loco Co. units are banking duties and one afternoon and evening trip from Plymouth to Exeter via Okehampton and back."

Hope this is of interest to someone, I will post more relevant entries as I discover them.

The paint brush has been put down

I think they're finished, that is finished to the best that my current modelling capabilities allow. I'm not totally happy with the wagons and realise that there is a lot of room for improvement. I could spend more time on trying to perfect my weathering techniques but could also very easily ruin one or all of them by over doing it. So I've put the paint brush down and will now concentrate on getting ready for the 'big day' on Friday.


My original intention was to build six or more wagons, from many manufacturers, and use different components, especially some etched brake gear. In the end I've only used kits from three manufacturers and components from a limited selection of suppliers. So looking at what I wanted to achieve against what I have produced I could think that I've failed. But on the contrary, in entering the competition I have pushed my skills, gained confidence and learned new techniques along the way.







The last wagon (above), the slope sided wagon, has been the most difficult to build. It has, however, developed into my favourite, the one I've gained the most satisfaction from building. More wagons will follow.......

Encouraging comments

A very quick update....

At this evening's Scalefour Area Group Meeting I received some favourable comments on three mineral wagons I took along for scrutiny. None of the wagons are completely finished, and with only four modelling evenings left, time is getting tight. But with the encouraging comments received this evening I'm starting to feel I'm getting somewhere.


Above is a shot of the slope sided wagon before I started to add the white stripes. I still need to work out how to blacken the Exactoscale wheel rims. I've tried all the Carr's Metal Blacks with no effect. However, after all my struggles, I feel it is starting to come together with this one.

All six still needing numbering, some touching up of the rust patches, and final weathering to be applied. Doesn't sound much left to do....... does it?

Kingdom of Rust

Apart from being a good album by Doves, a 'Kingdom of Rust' does seem to be where I might be heading at the moment.

The first wagons to hit the paint shop.......

They do look a bit of mess and as you may realise from viewing the above, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing at the moment. I did start a practice piece on some scrap plastic but with less than two weeks of modelling evenings left before Leatherhead I thought I'd better just get on with it.

On the two rusted wagons above I'm going to try Martyn Welch's technique using Maskol to mask the areas of rust I need to show through the grey top coat. I do hope they start to look better as I apply more layers of paint.

The era I'm working to depict with Tredthy Wharf and other projects is 1961-2. In looking for colour photos of wagons in the early sixties, I've found one that shows mineral wagons with minimal rusting. This photo appears on the back page of Great Western Railway Journal no.66 showing Dulverton goods yard on 11/6/62 with two 16t minerals in view. Other B/W photos taken in the early 60s also generally seem to show minimal rusting on wagons. My recollection during the mid to late 60s and early 70s was of rust buckets travelling through our local station. So I'm a little undecided as to what state the wagons should be. I have to consider that my memory has been corrupted with seeing many colour photos taken during the 70s and 80s of repaired, rebuilt and well worn mineral wagons.

So maybe I will not fully enter the 'Kingdom of Rust', there might not be so much rusting involved on these wagons. I will look at numbering the two rusted wagons above from lots that were built in the early 1950s. On the remaining wagons I'll probably have a go at depicting minimal rusting. Well I'm going to try.........